Sunday, October 25, 2009

Lying for the god of Mormonism

How can anyone rationalize deceptiveness by the LDS Church leaders? If they will teach their own missionaries to mislead the public, how can you trust anything the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) say?


  1. Wow what an appeal to authority. Authority on the false premises that the LDS Church is alone the true church. He is feeding those folks most likely headed to the mission field. This is good ammunition. Hee heee Heee

  2. Yes, Robert Millet is speaking to Mormon missionaries at the LDS Missionary Training Center (MTC).


  4. And what exactly is Robert Millet lying about?

    The definition of "lie" is to deliberately, and consciously, mislead someone. Saying something that is not true is not the same thing as lying. It only lying if it the speaker knows it is untrue.

    If Millet has spoken an untruth, he has done it without knowing it. Millet believes what he is saying, and thus he is not lying.

    As for the issue of redirecting the questions asked by critics of Mormonism, Millet is only following a long tradition established by Jesus, continued by Paul, and furthered by the great early Christian writers. The concept of milk before meat is an ancient one.

  5. You're right lehislibray. How irresponsible could we possibly be? We should change the name of this post to: "Teaching Mormons how to lie for the god of Mormonism and deceive people as to what Mormons really believe."

    It appears you haven't really studied the Gospels. Jesus taught in parables so we would have to study his point and then we would remember it. He didn't teach in parables to deceive. Your statement is so absolutely opposite of the exegesis of the text, it's glaring flawed.

  6. Joseph Smith taught in the King Follett Sermon on 7 April 1844, "It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible."

    If this is truly the "first principle", as Joseph Smith taught, then it Bob Millet should be stressing to his students that they should tell people about exultation. It should be in the very first missionary lesson and in chapter one of the Gospel Principles manual rather than chapter 47 (the last chapter).

    It appears that the modern Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints works diligently to go against this teaching of Joseph Smith.

    The full King Follett Sermon was printed in the April 1971 issue of the Ensign.

  7. First of all, I agree with you that Robert Millet is telling people something false. However, it is ALSO something he personally believes. I didn't catch him telling them to lie to other people, just how to manuver past difficult obstacles. And you've got to admit, mormon missionaries know how to manuver around obstacles. REALLY WELL.
    I liked seeing this because it gives me an idea of what they tell the missionaries I come in contact with before they go out on the mission field. I'll be wise to this tactic now if I notice it. That's the point where you have to say, "No, what I asked you was..." and continue in the direction you wanted to go in the first place.
    As to lehislibrary's comment about Jesus and Paul using this tactic when talking to people, the only thing I can recall is Jesus (already knowing what was in someone's heart) asking a question back of the question asked him. Otherwise, I don't know what they were trying to get at.
    Milk before meat IS an old concept (kind of like saying you need to learn the ABC's before being able to read a novel) but that doesn't get at what the motive was behind Mr. Millet saying this. What he was saying seemed to be "don't tackle the hard stuff until you've made sure they've excepted the easy stuff". Which leads you back to: "Avoid difficult questions!!" (Probably because it might make the missionaries question something themselves)

  8. sIt is a fact that the Bible teaches that not everyone is always prepared to receive the answer to every question. That principle is seen over and over again throughout the Bible. At the end of this comment I have included a long list of relevant passages.

    What happens when someone asks a question, but they are not prepared for the answer? What is one to do? Do we tell them that which they should not know?

    Millet suggests that we avoid those types of questions by talking about something else. This is the same tactic that Peter takes in the ancient Christian document "Clementine Recognitions" :

    "But if he remains wrapped up and polluted in those sins which are manifestly such, it does not become me to speak to him at all of the more secret and sacred things of divine knowledge, but rather to protest and confront him, that he cease from sin, and cleanse his actions from vice. But if he insinuate himself, and lead us on to speak what he, while he acts improperly, ought not to hear, it will be our part to parry him cautiously. For not to answer him at all does not seem proper, for the sake of the hearers, lest haply they may think that we decline the contest through want of ability to answer him, and so their faith may be injured through their misunderstanding of our purpose."

    Let us ask the same question about these ancient Christians that Helen asked about the LDS Church:

    How can anyone rationalize deceptiveness by the ancient Church leaders? If they will teach their own missionaries to mislead the public, how can you trust anything the Christian church says?

    Here are some passages from the Bible demonstrating that not everyone is privy to all things.

    “It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given” (Matthew 13:11).

    “Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand” (Matthew 13:14).

    “Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ. (Matthew 16:20)

    “All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given” (Matthew 19:11).

    “He taught them many things by parables, … as they were able to hear it” (Mark 4:2, 33).

    “And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.” (Mark 8:30)

    “And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them” (Luke 18:34).

    “If I tell you, ye will not believe” (Luke 22:67).

    “The light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not” (John 1:5).

    “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?” (John 3:12).

    “This is an hard saying; who can hear it?” (John 6:60).

    “Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word” (John 8:43).

    “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now” (John 16:12).

    “The time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father” (John 16:25).

    “As yet they knew not the scripture” (John 20:9).

    Jesus appeared “not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen” (Acts 10:41).

    “They . . . were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia” (Acts 16:6).

    “As they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind” (Romans 1:28).

    “I . . . could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, . . . I have fed you with milk, and not with meat” (1 Corinthians 3:1-2).

    “Unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter” (2 Corinthians 12:4).

    “By revelation he made known unto me the mystery; . . . which in other ages was not made known” (Ephesians 3:3-5).

    “The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints” (Colossians 1:26).

    “Many things . . . hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing” (Hebrews 5:11).

    “Many things . . . I would not write with paper and ink; but I . . . come unto you and speak face to face” (2 John 1:12).

  9. The Mormon church never provides the "meat". When I was a member I had to search it out, the "meat" and of course is why any thinking person would leave the church.

  10. The clever maneuvering in order to avoid answering good questions is one thing. That in itself is reason enough not to convert to the Mormon faith. "If it don't smell right, it ain't right." Another is actual, flat-out lying - such as when Gordon B. Hinckley denied on national TV that Mormons believe in a plurality of deities (I.e., polytheism). I was involved in an online debate in which the Mormon denied the LDS teaching concerning a pre-mortal council at which Jesus Christ was elected to be the Redeemer. We were discussing Mormonism's heretical Christology. I had to produce a quote from Joseph Smith to put the guy in his place. It's very laborious to first have to prove to them what it is that they actually do teach, first, and then show them why this is contrary to biblical teaching.

  11. All the references provided by Lehislibrary were essentially pointless, because Mormon LYING (a trait passed on from Joseph Smith himself, the role model for this behavior) is not supported by ANY of those texts.


Rocky and Helen Hulse

Rocky and Helen Hulse
Defending Christianity From Mormon Doctrine