Sunday, November 15, 2009

NASA-Water on the Moon. How did Joseph and Brigham already know?

NASA has found water on the moon. Now we know how the Quakers have been surviving.

by Rocky Hulse

November 15, 2009

Today on Fox News scientist Michio Kaku discussed the recent discoveries of NASA’s Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS). Launched on June 18th for an October 9th impact in the Cabeus crater, it appears the findings of the LCROSS mission confirms water on the moon. Just above the moon’s surface the LCROSS separated from the rocket booster which crashed into the Cabeus crater sending a debris plume more than six miles high; LCROSS then passed through the plume analyzing the debris field. The impact and subsequent analysis of the debris plume of the booster rocket and secondary analysis by earth instruments of LCROSS impacting the crater, have shown a 1% composition of water, in the form of ice crystals, of the lunar surface.
Over 150 years ago, the Founding Prophet of the Mormon Church, Joseph Smith, revealed to those of us without prophetic powers, that the moon was inhabited by people dressed like Quakers; now we know how these people have been getting their water. NASA’s work has just begun though, because Brigham Young, also a man whom Mormonism said had prophetic powers, said the sun was also inhabited. I’m wondering how the sun inhabitants keep their water from boiling.

The following quotes apply:

“Astronomers and philosophers have, from time almost immemorial until very recently, asserted that the moon was uninhabited, that it had no atmosphere, etc. But recent discoveries through the means of powerful telescopes, have given scientists a doubt or two upon the old theory.
“Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.
“As far back as 1837, I know that he said the MOON WAS INHABITED by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age then we do, that they live generally to near the age of 1,000 years.
“He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite informally in something near the Quaker style.
“In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirkland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and to the INHABITANTS OF THE MOON, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes.”1 [emphasis mine]

“The INHABITANTS OF THE MOON are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of earth, being about 6 feet in height.
“They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.
“They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.
“This is the description of them as GIVEN BY JOSEPH THE SEER, and he could ‘See’ whatever he asked the father in the name of Jesus to see.”2 [emphasis mine]

“Who can tell us of the INHABITANTS of this little planet that shines of an evening called the MOON?...when you inquire about the INHABITANTS of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the INHABITANTS OF THE SUN. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? NO QUESTION OF IT; IT WAS NOT MADE IN VAIN.”3 [emphasis mine]

1 The Young Woman’s Journal, 1892, Vol 3, pp. 263-264
2 Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol.3, page 166 of typed copy at Utah State Historical Society
3 Journal of Discourses, Vol 13, p. 271


5 comments:

  1. He knew! he just knew!! Just like he knew he was going to die, that Jsus was going to come back in his, lifetime and that Zion was based around the temple in Idependence, Missouri.

    I suppose if you go around saying enough outrageous things some of them will appear to come true. Now where did I leave my white salamander? Moroni! Did you move my salamander again? What do you mean the Quakers have it?

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  2. When one takes an honest look at these quotes, the issue suddenly seems far less interesting.

    The first thing to keep in mind is that during this time it was commonly held by the scientific community that the moon was inhabited. The Latter-day Saints didn't make this stuff up. William Herschel, the discoverer of Uranus, taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited.

    Furthermore, an elaborate hoax was carried out in 1835 by John Herschel in which it was published in papers around the country that the moon was inhabited by all sorts of fantastic creatures. It was reported in the Painesville Telegraph, just down the road from Kirtland. These false reports were widely believed by Americans for decades. Why should the LDS be any different? They were regular, fallible human beings who did the best with whatever scientific information was available to them. It is no different than when many Christians got all excited over alleged discoveries of Noah's ark, which of course have so far been false.

    Now to evaluate each of the three quotes.

    (1) The first quote is by Oliver Huntington, made in 1892, a full 55 years after Joseph is alleged to have made the statement. That isn't a very reliable source. Furthermore, Huntington's information regarding Joseph's statement isn't his own memory, but is third hand (see commentary below of 2nd quote).

    Oliver was told in his patriarchal blessing (given by Joseph Smith Sr., not Jr.) that he would be able to preach to the inhabitants of the moon or planets, IF IT BE EXPEDIENT. There is clearly a condition placed upon the blessing. Obviously, if the moon isn't really inhabited, then it isn't "expedient".

    (2) The second quote comes from Oliver Huntington's journal, written in 1881, a full 37 years after the death of Joseph Smith. Furthermore, Oliver himself never heard Joseph say this. He got this information from Philo Dibble. So we have a very late, third hand account of something Joseph Smith is alleged to have said. Again, this isn't a reliable source.

    (3) This quote is from Brigham Young in 1869. The bottom line is this...was Young speaking prophetically? Is there any evidence that Young thought he was speaking prophetically? Did his congregation interpret his words as revelation from God? Or, was Young merely stating his opinion?

    Brigham is clearly expressing an opinion, and there is no evidence that he is making a prophetic declaration concerning extraterrestrials. He even goes out of his way to indicate that this is what he "rather think[s]," and asks his congregation to consider what they think. He also says that he would want to know if an idea he has is false—even including his religion. These are not the sentiments of a man convinced he must be right by divine gift of prophetic omniscience.

    But let us assume, for a moment, that Joseph Smith actually believed that men lived in the moon. So what? Since when was a prophet also a scientist? Joseph was a man of his day, just like ancient prophets had wrong ideas concerning science. The validity of a prophet rests on the gospel message he teaches, not on his personal understanding of the scientific world around him.

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  3. This article ought to be read and digested by anyone serious about this issue. Critics of Joseph Smith putting stock in this issue should not be taken seriously until they have addressed the points made here.

    http://mormonmiscellaneous.com/Papers/Moonmen.pdf

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  4. Lehislibrary your argument against these quotes doesn’t hold water.
    Your initial argument is that the average Joe at this time believed these things. Well James, the Mormon Church has always said Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were “Prophets” of God; according to Mormonism, they were anything but average Joes.

    The first quote is taken from the “Young Woman’s Journal.” The “Young Woman’s Journal” was “Published by the Young Ladies’ Mutual Improvement Associations of Zion” as the lesson manual for the teenage girls of the Mormon Church. This periodical was printed by the Mormon Church at “The Juvenile Instructor Office” (another official publication of the Mormon Church) in Salt Lake City.

    So, if it this quote was printed by the Mormon Church and placed in the teenage girls lesson manual, and taught to them, your argument is with the leadership of the Mormon Church, not me. I’m just reporting what the Mormon Church printed and taught their teenage girls. Sorry you don’t like it James, but your Church taught it, not mine.

    The second quote is from the same guy whose quote was accepted, printed and taught in the lesson manuals of the Young Ladies’ Mutual Improvement Association. You may wish to disparage him, however, he is published by the Mormon Church, are you?

    The third quote you try to slough off by questioning whether he was speaking prophetically. Well, what does your church say about the “Journal of Discourses,” where this quote comes from. The first volume is quite specific about what these discourse are and that they are fully endorsed by the “First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”:

    “…Elder George D. Watt, by our counsel, spent much time … to acquire the art of reporting in Phonography, which he has faithfully and fully accomplished; and has been reporting the public Sermons, Discourses, Lectures, &c., delivered by the Presidency, the Twelve, and others in this city, … for the benefit of the Saints at large, … You will perceive at once that this will be a work of mutual benefit, and we cheerfully and warmly request your co-operation in the purchase and sale of the above-named Journal, …”


    “To the Saints abroad.

    …It affords me great pleasure in being able to put in your possession the words of the Apostles and Prophets, as they were spoken in the assemblies of the Saints in Zion, the value of which cannot be estimated by man, not so much for any great display of worldly learning and eloquence, as for the purity of doctrine, simplicity of style, and extensive amount of theological truth which they develop.
    …To those who are unacquainted with the Doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who are mantled in the darkness of ages, whose minds are sunk in the almost impenetrable shades of error, uncertainty, and doubt, but who sincerely desire to know the truth, these Sermons will prove a source of light, information, and joy. And, according to the vocation which belongs to the Eternal Priesthood, all authorized ministers of God will hail their publication with gladness, for such an embodiment of doctrine will greatly accelerate the grand object they have in view—the salvation of souls the instruction of Saints, and the building up of Zion in the last days.
    Particularly to the Elders who are scattered abroad upon the face of the earth, far from those who alone can instruct them in the more exalted branches of the Everlasting Gospel, these Sermons will be most valuable, as a guage of doctrine, a rule of rectitude, and a square to life, furnishing at the same time an extensive repository of historical information…

    G. D. WATT” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 1)


    The portions above completely deflate the argument that you are trying to use James. The “Journal of Discourses” as endorsed by the “First Presidency” clearly says it is to provide the “doctrines” of the Church. So, James, who do I believe? You, or the “First Presidency of the Church”? I believe Brigham Young over you James.

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  5. Why does it never occur to Mormons to ask why they have to be continually redacting, explaining and refuting the words of his prophets? Faithful Momrons, vigilant in their faith and earnest in their wish to share and explain seem to spend all their time, not promoting but justifying their leaders' teachings. It is such a shame.

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Rocky and Helen Hulse

Rocky and Helen Hulse
Defending Christianity From Mormon Doctrine